"Thou Shalt Not Kill" = racist

UPDATES HERE

(via LVB: Tolerantie (1).) In the Netherlands, artist Chris Ripke reacted to the murder on Theo Van Gogh by an islamic fundamentalist by painting a mural with the text "Gij zult niet doden" ("Thou Shalt Not Kill"), one of the ten commandments of the Christian religion.

 

But because the head of the nearby mosque complained to the police that this was 'offensive' and 'racist', the cops came and sent in city workers to sandblast the mural.  A local journalist, Wim Nottroth, who wanted to protest against this by standing in front of the mural was arrested. His story, in Dutch, here.  Video of the event, here.

It has come to this.

In my opinion, free speech is something absolute.  "Thou Shalt Not Kill" or "All infidels must die" both deserve equal protection.  Mind you, as speech.  Not as actions.  I firmly believe that if everybody is free to shout out his opinions as loudly as possible, it becomes a whole lot easier to spot the dangerous people.

And then, via more free speech, it becomes possible to make them see the error of their way, or at least drive away supporters by exposing their 'funny' ideas.

Also, the moment they make a move to put ideas into practice that harm others, it's a whole other ballgame.  Talking about killing somebody is okay, buying a gun to do it and staking out his house is not.

And it would be a whole lot easier for the cops to arrest some loon on a stakeout if he has been allowed to loudly trumpet his intentions before that.  I'm just saying...

Comments

[Mike Schomburg]

word up, brother. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Mike]

If you continue to tolerate the intolerance of islamists you will not be safer

the only way to peace is to fight for it and not give in to murderers

Safety and Freedom takes hard work and sacrifice that you msut be willing to fight for

Peace is what is at the end at a hard-fought victory against those who don't beleive in living peacefully

Each and everyone of us can do soemthing to help and fight for the cause of true peace by standing up against Islamists in our own way

[sharona]

What gets to me is that, in response to threats from Islamists, Europe has raised Islam to a position whereby it cannot be questioned, held accountable, prosecuted. It's as if Europe thinks that if they are conciliatory (if not aggrandizing) enough to the practitioners of this virulent strain of Islam, they will leave them alone. Theo Van Gogh is a testament to the folly of this thinking, and the actions associated therein.

[John]

Good luck in dealing with the Islamofacists.

There is a difference between tolerance and common sense. I hope you Europeans learn this before it is too late.

[Jake]

Either they believe killing is okay or they want to be killed. All the Mosque folks are doing is confirming the stereotype and proving that we are not racists or bigots, just realists!

[knotboy]

How can "Thou shall not kill" be "offensive"

I thought Islam was a religion of peace?
So if "Thou shall not kill" is offensive in Islam then naturally the opposite "Thou shall kill" is perfectly alright??

[Adric]

I thought Europe learned the error of appeasement to extremists half a decade ago. I guess I was wrong.

[Adam]

It is sad. We have seen the same kind of thing in the US. How is "not killing" offensive? It only is if killing is part of your religion.

There are tensions rising in Europe. For now, it is bringing the majority of the populus to the left. Once they are all the way, and as the killings continue, they will move slightly over and be on the right. And we all know where an extreme right Europe brings us.

[Erik]

How can the Dutch, Danish, Spain, that is, individual nations fight Islamofascism when they are marginalized as EUnuchs. Europeans show their courage in hating nations that fight this era's fascism. More's the pity because I have loved Europe's cultural heritage.

[Bob]

I am in no way agreeing with or supporting the cries of "racism" by the local Muslims.

That said, I would assume their claim of "offensive" and "racism" has to do with "Thou shalt not kill" being a commandment of the Christian religion, and not with the general idea of not killing. That would be a little ridiculous, I would think, even for them. Perhaps if the mural had simply said "murder is a bad thing, yo" they'd have been fine with it. Who knows.

I repeat - I am in no way agreeing with or supporting the cries of "racism" by the local Muslims.

[Clemente]

The Ten Commandments pre-date Christianity by at least a month or two. And Islam claims (falsely) to respect all scripture, and all Abrahamic prophets.

[John Stone]

Maybe the real reason that "("Thou Shalt Not Kill") was sand blasted was because that is not the proper translation from the original Hebrew.

The artist Chris Ripke should realize that this IS NOT from the ten commandments of the Christian religion, but from Judaism's Torah.

This is found in the "Ten Statements" given by God to the Children of Israel over 3,315 years ago. And it was given in HEBREW -- not English.

That "Statement" should read:

"You shall not MURDER." and is found in Torah at Exodus 20:13

[Scott]

Bob
In case you didn't get Clemente's comment, you need to study up on your comparative religions, yo.

[Joemama]

Deliver the gold to your new masters, oh Europe.

Bow lower, grovel, and once again, you'll be able to trade everything you have, for a little time...and party on.

[RalphieTB]

Notice Bob didn't say it wasn't offensive. Just that he didn't agree that it was racist. Remember - JudeoChristian ethics (for that is what those Ten Commandments are, you know) are offensive. Never mind that anyone who follows them is considered a model citizen the world over. I may not have respected religion my entire life, but even in my darkest hours I respected the big 10.

Muslim apologists frequently state that while the Koran has no explicit list like the Ten Commandments, it nonetheless has each do and don't in the book. Combine such a statement with how they operate, and it makes clear that it is nonsense.

This is sheer lunacy, frankly.

Europe needs to wake up before it is too late. Christendom may be long gone, but its children should not surrender the modern civilization that grew out of it to the almighty alter of tolerance.

[John-Paul Pagano]

I can't even fathom the argument that reminding people of one of the Abrahamic tradition's basic tenets, in light of a despicable murder committed in the name of Islam, is racist. Or is there some other interpretation that drove the Dutch authorities?

This is completely nuts.

[Sickofitall]

I find Islam to be racist and offensive. Please see to it that the nearby mosque is demolished. Thank you.

[Thou shalt not wage war]

Oh, of course, then going to war to kill every Johnny Foreign on sight is a commendable behaviour...

What a bunch of cowboys.

Besides, it's simply outrageous. I can't find a single reason to sandblast the mural. I simply can't find the racism on saying "Thou shalt not kill." Maybe it's 'cause we're suggesting that they can't kill EVERYONE? Are we restricting their liberties? "Help! We're being opressed", as Eric Idle said on The Holy Grail.

[Bob]

Scott - if not apparent, my comment regarding a different statement on the mural was purely tongue-in-cheek. Regardless of the precise origin of the Ten Commandments, Statements, Suggestions or whatever one cares to call them, the basic idea is that the Muslims appear to be offended by the statement because it's widely accepted as either a Jewish or Christian "rule," as worded in the mural. Right or wrong, most know it as "Thou shalt not kill," and my guess was that this was what had the mosque folks up in arms.

And as I said already, it's ridiculous.

And Ralphie, perhaps I got lazy and neglected to add "offensive" in my disclaimer about not agreeing. I don't believe the mural was offensive, racist, or anything of the sort, for the record.

[reader]

There’s one thing I don’t get: Why don’t these people go home to their religious, moral, holy countries where nasty democracy is merely a bad dream among the rulers? They hate the West – fine, no problem – but if your ass is burning, why not put it out of the fire?

[A.W.]

Hey, i am going to blog about this but... don't take this personally but i trust nothing on the web, unless the source has a track record with me of being honest. And i just never heard of this site before.

I would love a nice news report on it. Even if it is dutch, i can feed it through the babel fish translation page and see if it is saying what you claim it to be saying.

Also, i am not buying the theory that this is because it is quoting the bible that it is suddenly racist. The Bible is a religious book. Its not Mein Kampf. It is indeed racist to claim that Christianity v. Islam is a matter of race. There are white muslims (i.e. John Walker Lindh) and arab christians (none come to mind, but i know they exist).

Also i am not sure the police were wrong here. Look a mural? no, this is graffiti. At least that is how it looks to me. the police removing graffiti is not inherently an act of speech suppression, unless they were only removing certain graffiti they found offensive.

For me the shock is that "thou shalt not kill" bothers the idiots in that mosque. if i was a muslim i think i would be as offended as anyone else.

[a]

That same day in Rotterdam the police told video-journalists in the Charlois part of town as well as in the Oude Noorden part of town to stop their work. They had to blank their videotapes!

[Pym]

The Rotterdam (Holland) police stopped tv crews and journalists from filming at Wolphaertsbocht and Insulindestraat. They had to erase their tapes.

Rotterdam mayor Opstelten apologised for authoring to destory the 'You shall not kil' painting.
He did never apologize for stopping the camera journalists filming.

Liberal nationalist politician Michiel Smit (NieuwRechts party) did ask questions about the mayor's offence of free press, yet to be unanswered by mayor Opstelten.

[Dave]

And yet Europeans claim the United States is the facist state! Unbelievable.
So you don't have freedom of speech because of "political correctness" toward Muslims.
What is just as bad is that you can not videotape the State removing this mural, so you can not get the evidence out there for people to see.
If Europe keeps this up, they will deserve the dark cloud that is coming for all non-muslims.

[rp]

I wonder where you found the word "racist". It wasn't in the text you refer to.

[Former Belgian]

Sickening beyond sickening. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face...forever." (George Orwell, "1984") He only got one detail wrong: Islamic fundamentalists prefer backless sandals or slippers which slip off and on easily in the mosque. Goes well with their main allies, the Birkenstoch Brownshirts.

A.W.: yes, Arab Christians exist. Sometime ago, there was a list floating around the Internet comparing the about 100 Jewish Nobel Prize winners in the sciences with the 4 "Muslim" ones. Out of those four "Muslim"s, one was actually a Christian of Lebanese origin (the chemist Elias J. Corey).

Note however that many Lebanese Christians feel offended if you call them "Arabs": they claim they are descendants of the Phoenicians. Likewise, don'r ever call an Egyptian Coptic Christian an "Arab". (The UN secretary-general of old, Boutros Boutros-Ghali, was/is a Copt.)

The Israeli Arabs and "Palestinians" have pretty significant Xian minorities, many living around the Xian holy towns of Natzrat (Nazareth) and Beit-Lechem (Bethlehem), respectively. The Bethlehemites have increasingly emigrated over the past decades, not just because of the various Shtoopidfadas, but also because of (physical) harassment by their Muslim "brethren".

On another note, "lo tirtzach" indeed means "thou shalt not murder" --- "thou shalt not kill" would be "lo taharog".

[Jack]

Funny. It was always my understanding that "Thou shalt not kill" is from the Ten Commandments - that is, from the Old Testament - which is the same text as that contained in the first twelve books of "gasp!" Islam's Koran. Somebody must have forgotten to tell me in school that the Ten Commandments were reserved to "Christian Religion."

This just underscores the problem with the attitude of the leader of that local mosque (and of those who agree with him) that somehow the arguably most important commandment of the Ten Commandments - WHICH HIS OWN FAITH SUBSCRIBES TO - is racist. And I thought stuff like this only happened in America.

[pdm152]

It's happening to us too here in England(am I still allowed to call it England?). Some gormeless Council official in Islington in London is proposing removing the name of a Church of England(sorry) school that is being rebuilt so that it is no longer St. Mary Magdalene.We have a nest of vipers in our midst and we should not be surprised that they rise and bite us.

[crusader]

Let's face facts. Muslims are the racists bigots. They think they are above everyone else even though their countries are some of the worst in the world in every aspect. They know their "religion" is a cult introduced by Satan himself and therefore cannot accept any critism lest they admit the truth.

[Shane]

If they are dying to meet Allah, we should be setting up the meeting.

[GreatDane]

A part of what you say is pure bullshit.

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" and "All Infidels Must Die" do NOT deserve equal protection.

It is THIS kind of compromising attitude towards an islam, and ideology, that wants us all dead, preferable halal-butchered, that is going to be the end of us. It is in the values of democratic and free speech values, that our weakness lies. And they know it.

You have to sanction or ban islam, or you wont have your country in 20-30 years.

GD, Denmark

[DANEgerus]

Terrorist acts prevented are defeats in that the danger is dismissed... One death isn't enough... a 311 isn't enough... self-delusion serves the agenda and so it will take a 911 to awake the Dutch.

Sadly...

[Dymphna]

Freedom to say anything has its limits. Already there are a number of people calling for the death of George Bush. While you say the divide between speech and action is large enough to make the former allowable, my experience teaches me differently.

To give you an example from another sphere: studying the dialogue of married couples has shown a correlation between one kind of speech and the dissolution of that marriage: when either of the couple begins to mention divorce as a possibility, the likelihood becomes very great that they will soon separate.

Speech is powerful. For the good of the commonweal, some things are best left unsaid.

[Cato the Elder]

If you folks in Europe don't wake up soon, the next big wave of refugees to America will be Christian or post-Christian Europeans fleeing the Islamic takeover of the continent of Charlemagne, Martin Luther and de Gaulle.

And probably without a shot fired in defense of Old Europe. Demographics alone will be enough to defeat you.

[jorma]

An open letter to the EU,

I'm one of those idiots that voted for George Bush, and frankly, I feel a bit safer for the next 4 years, considering the alternative. You folks, however, have become so enamored in the PC crap that you think you can "negotiate" with terrorists.

Think of this, you don't ask a rabid dog how he got rabies, you shoot him. So why are you goofs trying to placate islamic terrorists?

Remember, there are a lot of dead Americans buried in France because you idiots thought you could reason with Hitler, and you were wrong. Guess what, the US is not going to come into Europe and save your butt a third time.

Sincerely,
Mark

[Sean]

Is Hypocrisy one of the pillars of islam?

[dave]

Has anyone considered the possibility that perhaps the raghead in question objected to the mural because it is dreadful? While casting my vote for GW this week I had the opportunity to peruse a good deal of artwork produced by the local grade schoolers. This "mural" would fit in nicely. I sure hope this guy isn't on the dole too.

[Jerry]

Europe has for a long time, and no one more than the Dutch, demonstrated a death wish. First it opens its borders to Moslems whose birthrate in time will reclaim it for the caliphate, then chooses to protect the lethal expressions of its dogmas as the merely the expression of another culture whose values are no better or worse than any other. Perhaps Europe feels it is the penance it must pay for the slaughter of millions in the 20th century. For whatever reason, it is offering its throat to be slit in the name of Allah and political correctness.

[Karen]

Chris Ripke should post the mural around every mosque in the country.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Europeans, wake up! Act now, and effectively, or it will either be (a) too late; or (b) your action will be so extreme as to carry other dangers.

Or you can be dhimmis in a Salafist Islamic state.

[Anonymous]

That is not a sandblaster. It is a high pressure washer. You can hear the pressure pump. A sandblaster would have cut deeply into the surface of the panel instead of slowly peeling the paint off. Sandblasters are not used by casual unprotected workers either.

Now why their culture has police who pressure wash murals at the simple request of Muslims is beyond me. They should sandblast the mosque into a soft edged gray blob. It's amazing though that worldwide, there has not been a lot of vandalism or arson at mosques. I wonder if the complaining mosque made any statements at all about Islam being the central motive of Van Gogh's execution?

Islamic culture has no Van Goghs of its own, so they kill ours. Bye Theo!

[Goov]

Dear Mark,

I'm not a bush-partisan but I don't think you're an idiot.

I will allways be thankfull to the US people to help us in need. I even can't play with those D-day-first-person-shooter just because I have a REAL respect for those guys dying in the beach of Normandy and in the forest of Belgium (I'm not jocking, I really mean it).

I don't support the war in Irak but I don't smile when I hear on radio the increasing number of american soldiers loosing their life there.

Was Irak the best objective to fight terrorism. Isn't Saudi Arabia, country of radical wahhabism, OUR common allie, more dangerous? Is Pakistan, an islamic radical military state a trustfull partner?

Ok, I'm only a weak European jurk (I'm coming to that conclusion after reading this blog and others like merde-in-France, Ino-Pasaran,etc.) but I really think that is time for US and Europe to calm down and sit down. If it isn't the case, that will be the end of our common history ...

Well ... that's all, sorry for that destructured post in approximate english ... I told you, after reading all those posts, I'm in a kind of emotional shock ...

Sincerely,
jS

[Jason]

I had always assumed that the ten commandments were as much a part of Islam as they were of Judaism and Christianity...how can someone be offended by a mural that speaks of one of the tenants of their own religion? I know that alot of muslims around the world no longer take "thougt shall not kill" seriously, at least when applied to jews, infidels, and shiites, but come on. Where are the moderate western muslims to protest this insanity that is being done in their name?

[p-dawg]

Jack: Don't Commit Murder is not arguably the most important commandment. The inarguably most important commandment is the first one: Put no other gods above The One True God. That the importance of that one commandment has been so diminished truly saddens me. Perhaps Don't Commit Murder is the most important commandment to secular readers, I don't know. Also, I'm surprised more Jews aren't up in arms about the whole 'The Ten Commandments belong to Christianity' thing.

[tweell]

Iraq was and is the best place to start in fighting Islamic terrorism, IMO. Central location (look at map of the area), dictator openly aiding terrorism, history of obvious wrongdoing, with good legal and moral reasons to conduct a regime change. Iraq's downtrodden people are the most secular and most educated in the region with the exception of Israel. Instead of attacking civilians in America, the terrorists are attacking soldiers in Iraq; this minimizes the damage they can do while maximizing their losses. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are nominally on our side, why move them up on the priority list? Let's see if they can clean up their own houses first. President Bush put out the priority listing of rogue nations some time ago; check his 'axis of evil' speech. He means what he says, so expect the US to deal with the problems in that order.

[Goov]

I learned arabic in the Mosque of Brussels some years ago ... all what I can say, is that the Saudi Government published all the antesemitic books I could see there. It was during the first Gulf War ... the position at that time was "the infidel is on the sacred ground and this is not our fault, look at what they are making to Irak, look at their military power, we are forced to host them".

They are behind the Gamahet el Islamiyya of Egypt, they are behind all the radical political group in the mashrek, they are behind every radical Imam in Europe. They didn't send food or equipment in the muslim ex-sovietic republics; they send there Qurans in quantity and builded Mosquee and Coranic schools.

I don't understand why the US government can say that Saudi Arabia is on "our side". Check the wahhabit dogma, it's impossible to them to collaborate with infidels. They have a double position, before and after the 11th of september. On one side, they are purshasing the terrorist on their territory and in the other side they are making a real islamic-radical propaganda all over the world. But if President Bush's speech didn't mention that, ok, I shut my mouth.

For the case of Irak, Israeli Military Specialists told the allied forces to free the country but NOT stay there ... Those guys had a really bad experience in Lebanon. They were first adored by south lebanon population (it is confirmed by some witness I met in Israël) freed from the palestinian occupation (lots of Sabra and Chatila were made by the palestinians there against the shiite community). But at the end of the conflict, all those people wanted to put themself under an israeli tank with a bomb ...

I always listen to the Israelians ...

(once again, sorry for my miserable english)

[John]

Goov:

1.I think you can rest assured that many Americans are distrustful of the Saudis. The relationship between Saudi Arabia and Islamic extemism has received more attention in the U.S. than you may be aware.
2.Pakistan is a Faustian proposition for us, but only one of many. Supposedly, our aid and such to them is tied to internal reforms, but I doubt we're pressing that like we should be.
3. I, too, would like to see the U.S. and Europe sit down, but I'm afraid that will have to wait until either Bush or Chirac is out of the picture. I think that they have too many common traits that have nothing to do with politics, i.e. stubbornness and pride.

John

[Goov]

Thanks that's the kind of post that make me much more confortable ... I really mean it ...

[Simon Hawkin]

Difficult to perceive, but, unfortunately, not too difficult to believe. What is Europe coming to? Something sad and tragic, I am afraid.

[Martin]

First, here is a partial quote from Bin Ladens recent communication

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies --
> civilians and military -- is an individual duty for
> every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it
> is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa
> Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and
> in order for their armies to move out of all the lands
> of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim.
> This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God,
> "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you
> all together," and "fight them until there is no more
> tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and
> faith in God."

This quote but many other readings as well that prompts me to suggest an insight I thought you might consider and perhaps make a comment.

It is this: Let us suppose Israel was not populated by a majority of Jews, but that it consisted of a majority of Catholics, or a majority of Baptists, or Hindus, or any other religion or sect, it would not change the issue driving the Islamic radicals. The issue driving the world's conflicts is the secularization of the "Arab Lands," the all "Tel Aviv" Catholics, or Baptists, or Hindus, or whatever, will still be infidels whose eradication is commanded by the Qur'an. The enemy is not "American Zionism" or "American Romanist" or "American Protestantism," , etc., but the life style superimposed on their culture as a result of the demographic pollution occasioned by westernization and the "European invasion". Indeed, even if the dominant population were Arabs, the "Tel Aviv" secularized Arabs would be as much a target for the radicals as Jews, and even more so since apostasy is an even greater offense.

Have I made my point clear? Can you not comprehend the "war" between our civilizations.
It has nothing to do with Jews qua Jews. The fluke of history is the British put them there. And what they put there were "westerners" and any "westerners" of any religious type would have created the same situation we have today.

[Jack]

Amazing to me that people in Europe need to be reminded about the 1400 year old war between the mindless islamic "religion" and the rest of the world. Melosovic had the right idea and sooner or later there will be enough men (or women) in Europe that conclude that all of islam is not to be trusted and not to be imported into an otherwise struggling modern capitalist/socialist system. As long as you have mosque's in Europe you will have islamic terrorism, it may be cold now but that's only because Europe will fall without much of a fight within 70 years based purely on demographics; IE: abortion, internationaism and women interested only in the material world and not interested in the NEXT WORLD, which by all accounts never really did exist anyway except to those of deep religious faith and the semi-retarded...Oh look up in the sky! is it a bird? is it a plane? no it's ARAFAT RIDING UP TO ALLAH ON A WHITE ARABIAN STEED!!! Such Bullshit!!!

[Jame W. Bailey]

I very much appreciate your post concerning Theo van Gogh and the incident involing the mural. I worte the following letter that was the day after Theo van Gogh's assasination and posted on Washington, D. C. art critic F. Lennox Campello's site D C Art News - http://www.dcartnews.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_dcartnews_archive.html

I have also dedicated my Littoral Art Project ANTI-OPTIONS 05 to Theo van Gogh - http://www.antioptions05.blogspot.com

FROM D C ART NEWS -

Van Gogh's great grandson murdered in Amsterdam

Greg Allen reports that Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh, who is the great grandson of Vincent Van Gogh was murdered on an Amsterdam street yesterday, apparently by Muslim extremists because of a short film by Theo titled "Submission" which had been broadcast on Dutch TV.

Per Allen, "Van Gogh and the film's writer, an "ex-Muslim" member of parliament, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, had received numerous death threats and accusations of blasphemy."

James W. Bailey has the following words on this brutal murder:

Another Saint in the art world has given his life in the pure pursuit of his art.

Yesterday's savage and brutal murder in Amsterdam of filmmaker Theo van Gogh represents another direct assault by extremists on the universal concept of freedom of artistic expression.

The first line of protection that an artist, photographer, curator, musician, singer, dancer, choreographer or any other person involved in the arts enjoys in support of their art, is acceptance within the art world of the basic principles of freedom of artistic expression.

It is absolutely critical that every person in the arts, and more importantly, that every arts organization on the planet, subscribe to and advocate for a consistent definition of freedom of artistic expression that applies equally to every single artist.

Every voice in the art world needs to speak out condemning the slaughter of Theo van Gogh.

Every voice in the art world also needs to speak with clarity, firmness and resolve in support of a universally accepted definition of freedom of artist expression for every artist in this world.

Sincerely,

James W. Bailey
Experimental Photographer