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November 05, 2004

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" = racist

UPDATES HERE

(via LVB: Tolerantie (1).) In the Netherlands, artist Chris Ripke reacted to the murder on Theo Van Gogh by an islamic fundamentalist by painting a mural with the text "Gij zult niet doden" ("Thou Shalt Not Kill"), one of the ten commandments of the Christian religion.

 


But because the head of the nearby mosque complained to the police that this was 'offensive' and 'racist', the cops came and sent in city workers to sandblast the mural.  A local journalist, Wim Nottroth, who wanted to protest against this by standing in front of the mural was arrested. His story, in Dutch, here.  Video of the event, here.

It has come to this.

In my opinion, free speech is something absolute.  "Thou Shalt Not Kill" or "All infidels must die" both deserve equal protection.  Mind you, as speech.  Not as actions.  I firmly believe that if everybody is free to shout out his opinions as loudly as possible, it becomes a whole lot easier to spot the dangerous people.

And then, via more free speech, it becomes possible to make them see the error of their way, or at least drive away supporters by exposing their 'funny' ideas.

Also, the moment they make a move to put ideas into practice that harm others, it's a whole other ballgame.  Talking about killing somebody is okay, buying a gun to do it and staking out his house is not.

And it would be a whole lot easier for the cops to arrest some loon on a stakeout if he has been allowed to loudly trumpet his intentions before that.  I'm just saying...

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Comments

Mike Schomburg

word up, brother. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Mike

If you continue to tolerate the intolerance of islamists you will not be safer

the only way to peace is to fight for it and not give in to murderers

Safety and Freedom takes hard work and sacrifice that you msut be willing to fight for

Peace is what is at the end at a hard-fought victory against those who don't beleive in living peacefully

Each and everyone of us can do soemthing to help and fight for the cause of true peace by standing up against Islamists in our own way


sharona

What gets to me is that, in response to threats from Islamists, Europe has raised Islam to a position whereby it cannot be questioned, held accountable, prosecuted. It's as if Europe thinks that if they are conciliatory (if not aggrandizing) enough to the practitioners of this virulent strain of Islam, they will leave them alone. Theo Van Gogh is a testament to the folly of this thinking, and the actions associated therein.

John

Good luck in dealing with the Islamofacists.

There is a difference between tolerance and common sense. I hope you Europeans learn this before it is too late.

Jake

Either they believe killing is okay or they want to be killed. All the Mosque folks are doing is confirming the stereotype and proving that we are not racists or bigots, just realists!

knotboy

How can "Thou shall not kill" be "offensive"

I thought Islam was a religion of peace?
So if "Thou shall not kill" is offensive in Islam then naturally the opposite "Thou shall kill" is perfectly alright??

Adric

I thought Europe learned the error of appeasement to extremists half a decade ago. I guess I was wrong.

Adam

It is sad. We have seen the same kind of thing in the US. How is "not killing" offensive? It only is if killing is part of your religion.

There are tensions rising in Europe. For now, it is bringing the majority of the populus to the left. Once they are all the way, and as the killings continue, they will move slightly over and be on the right. And we all know where an extreme right Europe brings us.

Erik

How can the Dutch, Danish, Spain, that is, individual nations fight Islamofascism when they are marginalized as EUnuchs. Europeans show their courage in hating nations that fight this era's fascism. More's the pity because I have loved Europe's cultural heritage.

Bob

I am in no way agreeing with or supporting the cries of "racism" by the local Muslims.

That said, I would assume their claim of "offensive" and "racism" has to do with "Thou shalt not kill" being a commandment of the Christian religion, and not with the general idea of not killing. That would be a little ridiculous, I would think, even for them. Perhaps if the mural had simply said "murder is a bad thing, yo" they'd have been fine with it. Who knows.

I repeat - I am in no way agreeing with or supporting the cries of "racism" by the local Muslims.

Clemente

The Ten Commandments pre-date Christianity by at least a month or two. And Islam claims (falsely) to respect all scripture, and all Abrahamic prophets.

John Stone

Maybe the real reason that "("Thou Shalt Not Kill") was sand blasted was because that is not the proper translation from the original Hebrew.

The artist Chris Ripke should realize that this IS NOT from the ten commandments of the Christian religion, but from Judaism's Torah.

This is found in the "Ten Statements" given by God to the Children of Israel over 3,315 years ago. And it was given in HEBREW -- not English.

That "Statement" should read:

"You shall not MURDER." and is found in Torah at Exodus 20:13

Scott

Bob
In case you didn't get Clemente's comment, you need to study up on your comparative religions, yo.

Joemama

Deliver the gold to your new masters, oh Europe.

Bow lower, grovel, and once again, you'll be able to trade everything you have, for a little time...and party on.

RalphieTB

Notice Bob didn't say it wasn't offensive. Just that he didn't agree that it was racist. Remember - JudeoChristian ethics (for that is what those Ten Commandments are, you know) are offensive. Never mind that anyone who follows them is considered a model citizen the world over. I may not have respected religion my entire life, but even in my darkest hours I respected the big 10.

Muslim apologists frequently state that while the Koran has no explicit list like the Ten Commandments, it nonetheless has each do and don't in the book. Combine such a statement with how they operate, and it makes clear that it is nonsense.

This is sheer lunacy, frankly.

Europe needs to wake up before it is too late. Christendom may be long gone, but its children should not surrender the modern civilization that grew out of it to the almighty alter of tolerance.

John-Paul Pagano

I can't even fathom the argument that reminding people of one of the Abrahamic tradition's basic tenets, in light of a despicable murder committed in the name of Islam, is racist. Or is there some other interpretation that drove the Dutch authorities?

This is completely nuts.

Sickofitall

I find Islam to be racist and offensive. Please see to it that the nearby mosque is demolished. Thank you.

Thou shalt not wage war

Oh, of course, then going to war to kill every Johnny Foreign on sight is a commendable behaviour...

What a bunch of cowboys.

Besides, it's simply outrageous. I can't find a single reason to sandblast the mural. I simply can't find the racism on saying "Thou shalt not kill." Maybe it's 'cause we're suggesting that they can't kill EVERYONE? Are we restricting their liberties? "Help! We're being opressed", as Eric Idle said on The Holy Grail.

Bob

Scott - if not apparent, my comment regarding a different statement on the mural was purely tongue-in-cheek. Regardless of the precise origin of the Ten Commandments, Statements, Suggestions or whatever one cares to call them, the basic idea is that the Muslims appear to be offended by the statement because it's widely accepted as either a Jewish or Christian "rule," as worded in the mural. Right or wrong, most know it as "Thou shalt not kill," and my guess was that this was what had the mosque folks up in arms.

And as I said already, it's ridiculous.

And Ralphie, perhaps I got lazy and neglected to add "offensive" in my disclaimer about not agreeing. I don't believe the mural was offensive, racist, or anything of the sort, for the record.

reader

There’s one thing I don’t get: Why don’t these people go home to their religious, moral, holy countries where nasty democracy is merely a bad dream among the rulers? They hate the West – fine, no problem – but if your ass is burning, why not put it out of the fire?

A.W.

Hey, i am going to blog about this but... don't take this personally but i trust nothing on the web, unless the source has a track record with me of being honest. And i just never heard of this site before.

I would love a nice news report on it. Even if it is dutch, i can feed it through the babel fish translation page and see if it is saying what you claim it to be saying.

Also, i am not buying the theory that this is because it is quoting the bible that it is suddenly racist. The Bible is a religious book. Its not Mein Kampf. It is indeed racist to claim that Christianity v. Islam is a matter of race. There are white muslims (i.e. John Walker Lindh) and arab christians (none come to mind, but i know they exist).

Also i am not sure the police were wrong here. Look a mural? no, this is graffiti. At least that is how it looks to me. the police removing graffiti is not inherently an act of speech suppression, unless they were only removing certain graffiti they found offensive.

For me the shock is that "thou shalt not kill" bothers the idiots in that mosque. if i was a muslim i think i would be as offended as anyone else.

a

That same day in Rotterdam the police told video-journalists in the Charlois part of town as well as in the Oude Noorden part of town to stop their work. They had to blank their videotapes!

Pym

The Rotterdam (Holland) police stopped tv crews and journalists from filming at Wolphaertsbocht and Insulindestraat. They had to erase their tapes.

Rotterdam mayor Opstelten apologised for authoring to destory the 'You shall not kil' painting.
He did never apologize for stopping the camera journalists filming.

Liberal nationalist politician Michiel Smit (NieuwRechts party) did ask questions about the mayor's offence of free press, yet to be unanswered by mayor Opstelten.

Dave

And yet Europeans claim the United States is the facist state! Unbelievable.
So you don't have freedom of speech because of "political correctness" toward Muslims.
What is just as bad is that you can not videotape the State removing this mural, so you can not get the evidence out there for people to see.
If Europe keeps this up, they will deserve the dark cloud that is coming for all non-muslims.

rp

I wonder where you found the word "racist". It wasn't in the text you refer to.

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